Build Real Estate Wealth While Working Full-Time

How to Build Real Estate Wealth Without Quitting Your Day Job: Lessons from a 47-Year Investing Journey

Episode Summary

In this episode of The Real Estate Investing Club, host Gabe Petersen sits down with Joel Miller, a real estate investor who’s been building wealth since 1978. Joel shares his unique journey of balancing a successful 35-year mobile DJ career with building a profitable rental property portfolio, flipping over 100 houses, and eventually becoming a hard money lender. From his first $25,000 property purchase to acquiring 14 units with no money down, Joel proves that real estate investing doesn’t have to be an all-or-nothing commitment.

Key Takeaways

Real estate investing can be successfully built alongside another career or passion—you don’t have to choose between the two
Off-market deals consistently provide better opportunities than working with realtors for rental property acquisitions
Proper vetting of anchor tenants in commercial properties is critical to avoiding costly vacancies
Creative financing structures like seller financing can enable massive portfolio growth with minimal upfront capital
Building relationships in your local market opens doors to opportunities that never hit the MLS

Questions Answered in This Episode

For beginners: How much should I expect to pay for my first rental property, and how do I finance it?

For side hustlers: Can I really build wealth through real estate while maintaining my primary career?

For deal seekers: What’s the most effective way to find properties off-market?

For commercial investors: What mistakes should I avoid when investing in commercial real estate?

For portfolio builders: How can I structure creative financing deals that benefit both buyer and seller?

How Can You Build Real Estate Wealth While Working Another Job?

One of the most common misconceptions in real estate investing is that you need to go all-in or not at all. Joel Miller’s 47-year journey proves this couldn’t be further from the truth.

As Joel explains: “Real estate doesn’t have to be an either or thing. You can choose to add rental real estate to something that you don’t want to give up like I did. I had a passion for being an entertainer, a mobile DJ in particular, and I didn’t want to give that up, and so I grew those two things side by side.”

Starting in 1978 with his first rental property, Joel simultaneously built a mobile DJ business that ultimately included over 5,000 appearances across 35 years. He also started an accounting practice after college, which he eventually sold after five years because “something had to give.” But notably, he kept both the DJ business and real estate investing going strong.

The key advantages of maintaining a primary career while building real estate wealth include:

Steady income for acquisitions: Your job provides consistent cashflow to fund down payments and handle unexpected property expenses without tapping into reserves or forcing sales.

Reduced financial pressure: Unlike full-time investors who need immediate returns, part-time investors can be more selective with deals and wait for truly exceptional opportunities.

Diversified income streams: Multiple revenue sources provide financial security and reduce dependence on any single income stream.

Passion preservation: If you love what you do professionally, real estate becomes a wealth-building vehicle rather than a replacement career.

Joel’s approach resulted in building a substantial portfolio that included rental properties, over 100 house flips since 1991, and eventually transitioning into hard money lending in 2018. His book, “Build Real Estate Wealth: Enjoy the Journey of Rental Property Investment,” specifically addresses how investors at any level can integrate real estate wealth building into their existing lives.

For professionals like lawyers, accountants, doctors, firefighters, or anyone with a career they don’t want to abandon, the message is clear: real estate can complement your career rather than compete with it. The wealth-building happens over time through appreciation, mortgage paydown, and cashflow—none of which require you to be a full-time investor.

What’s the Best Way to Find Off-Market Real Estate Deals?

Joel Miller made a striking statement early in the episode that should make every investor rethink their acquisition strategy: “It was the last property that I used a realtor to buy in my entire career.”

That’s right—after purchasing his first rental property in 1978 for $25,000 through a realtor, Joel never bought another rental property through traditional MLS channels again. As he puts it simply: “The best way to find deals is the off-market deals.”

But what makes off-market deals so superior? Consider these advantages:

Less competition: You’re not bidding against dozens of other investors who saw the same MLS listing. This gives you negotiating leverage and better pricing.

Motivated sellers: People selling off-market typically have urgent situations—retirement, health issues, inheritance properties they don’t want to manage, or financial distress. These circumstances create opportunities for creative deal structures.

Direct communication: Without agents in the middle, you can build direct relationships with sellers and understand their true motivations, leading to win-win solutions that might not be possible through traditional channels.

Better deal structures: Off-market transactions allow for creative financing arrangements like seller financing, lease options, or subject-to deals that rarely work through realtor transactions.

Joel’s most impressive deal exemplifies this principle perfectly. A tenant in one of his row homes complained about a neighboring property not being maintained. Joel tracked down the owner—a doctor who happened to attend Joel’s DJ appearances. This relationship connection led to acquiring 14 units across 13 properties with no money down, no payments, and no interest for 18 months.

As Joel recalls: “He was 59 and he was being told by his cardiologist that if he didn’t retire now, he was gonna die. So he literally sold his medical practice and sold me his entire portfolio.”

The purchase terms were exceptional: the price was set at two-thirds of recent paid appraisals, followed by interest-only payments for five or six years, and finally transitioning to an amortized loan. Joel operated those properties for 23 years and eventually sold them for four times his purchase price.

For investors looking to find off-market deals, Joel’s success suggests several strategies:

Build relationships in your local market through networking, real estate investing clubs, and community involvement
Follow up on leads from your existing tenants about problem properties in the neighborhood
Market directly to property owners through direct mail, door knocking, or digital marketing
Maintain visibility in your community so potential sellers think of you when they’re ready to sell

The lesson is clear: while realtors serve an important function for selling properties, the best acquisition opportunities typically come from direct connections with property owners.

How Much Should You Pay for Your First Rental Property?

Understanding proper valuation and acquisition costs is crucial for new investors, and Joel Miller’s first purchase offers valuable context—even if the numbers seem shockingly low by today’s standards.

Joel’s first rental property, purchased in January 1978, cost $25,000. As Gabe responds in the episode: “That is crazy. That’s not even the [cost of a down payment today].”

While this specific number isn’t replicable in today’s market due to decades of inflation and appreciation, the principles behind Joel’s approach remain timeless:

Start with what you can afford: Joel put 20% down on that first property, which was standard at the time and remains a common down payment requirement for investment properties today. This meant his initial cash investment was $5,000—a manageable sum for someone working full-time.

Focus on cashflow potential, not just price: The property still generates income for Joel today, 47 years later. As he mentions: “I still have it. I was just there a few days ago. It’s a cash cow.”

Don’t wait for the perfect market: Many would-be investors sit on the sidelines waiting for prices to drop or for the “right” market conditions. Joel bought in 1978 and continued buying through multiple market cycles, each time finding properties that worked at the current market prices.

Run your numbers conservatively: The 20% down payment provided both equity cushion and better loan terms, setting the property up for long-term success rather than over-leveraging.

For today’s investors wondering about current pricing, consider these guidelines:

For primary markets: Be prepared for higher acquisition costs but potentially stronger appreciation and easier property management due to better infrastructure
For secondary/tertiary markets: Lower acquisition costs may offer better cashflow but require more careful evaluation of job growth and population trends
For value-add opportunities: Properties needing rehabilitation can often be acquired below market value, similar to Joel’s portfolio acquisition where “half of them were not occupied and all of them were under rented”

The most important lesson from Joel’s first purchase isn’t the $25,000 price tag—it’s that he took action despite being in his early twenties with limited experience. That property still generates income nearly five decades later, demonstrating the power of starting your real estate investing journey regardless of market conditions.

What Are the Biggest Risks When Investing in Commercial Real Estate?

Commercial real estate can offer higher returns and longer lease terms than residential properties, but Joel Miller learned a crucial lesson about commercial investing that cost him significantly.

When Gabe asks about deals that went sideways, Joel immediately references his commercial property experience: “We talked about that about 10 minutes ago when I told you about that commercial property where the tenants went bankrupt.”

The specific risk Joel identified is the anchor tenant problem. As he explains: “The lesson learned is that if you are investing in commercial property, particularly if there are what we would call anchor tenants, that if one of those went out, it would cause problems with you because the other little tenants that are there are not enough to keep it going.”

This situation creates a cascade of problems:

Immediate cashflow crisis: When an anchor tenant leaves, you’re suddenly missing a large portion of your rental income—often 40-60% or more of the property’s total revenue.

Challenging relegation timeline: Unlike residential properties where you might fill a vacancy in 30-60 days, commercial spaces can take six months to two years to re-lease, especially if they require significant tenant improvements or were specialized for the previous tenant’s use.

Secondary tenant flight risk: Smaller tenants often lease in a commercial property specifically because of the foot traffic generated by anchor tenants. When the anchor leaves, these smaller tenants may break their leases or not renew because the location no longer serves their business needs.

Property value decline: Commercial properties are typically valued based on net operating income. A major tenant vacancy can significantly decrease the property’s appraised value, potentially creating refinancing challenges or equity losses.

Joel’s hard-earned advice is straightforward: “My lesson learned is to vet those anchor tenants enough to know they’re not three months from bankruptcy.”

This vetting process should include:

Reviewing the tenant’s financial statements if possible (larger commercial leases often include financial reporting requirements)
Researching the company’s overall health, recent news, and industry trends
Understanding the tenant’s lease terms, renewal options, and any early termination clauses
Checking how the business is performing at other locations if it’s a chain or franchise
Evaluating whether the tenant’s business model is sustainable given changing market conditions and consumer behavior

Commercial real estate investing requires a different level of due diligence than residential properties. The potential for higher returns comes with higher risks, and as Joel learned, failing to properly evaluate your tenants’ financial stability can turn a promising investment into a significant problem.

For investors considering commercial properties, Joel’s experience serves as a valuable reminder: know your tenants’ businesses as well as you know your property.

How Can You Structure a No Money Down Real Estate Deal?

Perhaps the most impressive transaction in Joel’s 47-year investing career demonstrates that creative financing can lead to massive portfolio growth—if you understand what motivates sellers and can structure win-win solutions.

Joel’s acquisition of 14 units across 13 properties with no money down didn’t happen through aggressive negotiation or taking advantage of a desperate seller. Instead, it came from understanding the seller’s needs and crafting a solution that addressed them.

As Joel recounts: “I bought them for no money down, no payments, no interest for like 18 months. The purchase price was two thirds of whatever the appraised value was. And he had a recent paid appraisal for all of the properties, third party paid appraisal, whatever that was, two thirds of that was the purchase price.”

Let’s break down what made this deal work for both parties:

The seller’s situation: A 59-year-old doctor whose cardiologist told him “if he didn’t retire now, he was gonna die.” He owned 10 row homes in one neighborhood plus 4 additional properties—14 units total. Half were vacant and all were under-rented. He needed to eliminate stress immediately, not maximize short-term profit.

The buyer’s (Joel’s) position: Joel had a tenant who complained about one of the doctor’s neglected properties. Through his DJ business, Joel already knew the seller personally. He had the expertise to fix and rent the properties but needed time to create value.

The creative structure that solved both problems:

No money down: Eliminated Joel’s need for significant capital and gave the doctor an immediate exit
No payments for 18 months: Gave Joel time to renovate vacant units and bring all properties to market rents without payment pressure
No interest during the initial period: Further reduced Joel’s carrying costs during the improvement phase
Purchase price at 2/3 of appraised value: Gave Joel instant equity while still providing the seller with reasonable compensation given the properties’ condition
Interest-only payments for 5-6 years: After the initial period, payments stayed manageable while Joel optimized operations
Eventually moved to amortized loan: Provided the seller with regular income in retirement while giving Joel permanent portfolio expansion

Joel invested the 18-month grace period wisely: “I told them that’s how long it would take to improve the properties and fill them all and get them to market rents.”

The results speak for themselves: Joel operated these properties for 23 years, generated significant cashflow throughout that period, and “finally sold them a couple of years ago for four times what I paid for them after making tons of money on them over the years.”

As Gabe notes during the episode: “That just goes to show relationships are one of the most important things in real estate. The relationship was the key, was the linchpin and that’s what allowed you to have the opportunity.”

For investors looking to structure creative deals, Joel’s success demonstrates several crucial principles:

Understand the seller’s true motivation: The doctor didn’t need maximum price—he needed to eliminate stress and preserve his health. Your job is discovering what sellers really want, which is often not just the highest cash offer.

Have the expertise to create value: Joel could confidently take on properties that were half-vacant and under-rented because he knew how to fix the problems. Creative financing works best when you can improve what you’re buying.

Structure terms that work for both parties: The 18-month no-payment period wasn’t just good for Joel—it also meant the doctor didn’t need to worry about non-payment issues during the transition period when the properties needed work.

Build relationships before you need them: Joel’s DJ business put him in contact with the seller years before this transaction. You never know which relationship will lead to your next great deal.

Be willing to pay a fair price for fair terms: Joel didn’t try to steal the properties just because the seller was motivated. The 2/3 of appraised value was reasonable given their condition, and the long-term financing made up for any discount.

Creative financing strategies like seller financing, master leases, lease options, and subject-to deals remain available to investors willing to think beyond conventional bank financing. The key is finding situations where your solution genuinely solves the seller’s problem better than a conventional sale would.

Should You Flip Houses or Buy Rental Properties for Long-Term Wealth?

Joel Miller’s career provides a fascinating answer to one of real estate investing’s most common debates: should you focus on flipping properties for quick profits or building a rental portfolio for long-term wealth?

His approach? Do both strategically.

Joel started with rental properties in 1978, then added house flipping to his business model in 1991. As he mentions: “Starting in 1991, I did start flipping houses in addition to the rental property portfolio. I flipped over 100 houses.”

Later in his career, around 2018, he added hard money lending, which as he describes gives him “great satisfaction to be part of the equation for the other investors that are a little earlier on in their journeys.”

This multi-strategy approach offers several advantages:

Flipping provides active income: House flips generate lumps of cash that can be used for down payments on rentals, funding renovations on rental properties, or simply providing living expenses. For someone running a DJ business, the flip profits could cover periods with fewer bookings.

Rentals build passive wealth: While flips provide immediate income, rental properties deliver consistent cashflow, appreciation over time, mortgage paydown by tenants, and significant tax advantages through depreciation. Joel still owns his first 1978 property—that’s 47 years of cashflow, appreciation, and tax benefits from a single acquisition.

Each strategy trains you for the other: The renovation skills learned flipping houses make you better at identifying value-add rental opportunities. The property management experience from rentals helps you understand what features homebuyers want in flips.

Market conditions favor different strategies at different times: During seller’s markets with low inventory and high prices, flipping might be more challenging while rental demand stays strong. In buyer’s markets, flip opportunities may be plentiful while rental cashflow tightens due to increased supply.

Joel’s first property exemplifies the power of the rental approach. That $25,000 1978 purchase is still generating income today. Assuming conservative appreciation rates and steady cashflow, that single property likely generated well over $250,000 in total returns across rent collection, appreciation, and mortgage paydown—all from a $5,000 initial investment (20% down).

Meanwhile, his 100+ flips provided the capital to expand his portfolio, fund improvements, and eventually transition into hard money lending, which offers yet another income stream with less management intensity than direct property ownership.

For investors trying to decide between these strategies, consider:

Choose flipping if you:

Need immediate income and don’t have another stable income source
Enjoy active project management and renovation work
Have limited capital and need to recycle money quickly
Live in markets with strong buyer demand but limited rental yields
Want to build experience and capital before transitioning to rentals

Choose rentals if you:

Have stable income from another source (like Joel’s DJ business)
Want to build long-term, passive wealth
Prefer consistent monthly cashflow over periodic large payments
Can handle (or hire) ongoing property management
Want to maximize tax advantages through depreciation and other rental property benefits

Consider both if you:

Want to optimize for both short-term income and long-term wealth
Have the systems and team to manage multiple strategies
Can identify properties that work for either strategy and choose the best path case-by-case
Want diversification in your real estate business

Joel’s 47-year track record—encompassing rentals, flips, and hard money lending—demonstrates that real estate investing doesn’t require choosing a single lane. The key is understanding when each strategy serves your goals and having the discipline to execute well across multiple approaches.

His involvement with professional landlord organizations (he’s currently VP and was their longest-serving past president) and his teaching activities further show that mastering real estate goes beyond just doing deals—it’s about building comprehensive knowledge that serves you across different market conditions and life stages.

How Do Relationships Help You Find Better Real Estate Deals?

Throughout Joel Miller’s 47-year investing journey, one theme emerges repeatedly: the best deals come through relationships, not transactions.

Joel’s most profitable acquisition—14 units with no money down—happened specifically because of a relationship. As he explains, one of his tenants complained about a neighboring property, leading Joel to investigate: “Long story short, I found out that the owner was actually somebody that I knew. It was a doctor that came to my DJ appearances and would talk to me there.”

This wasn’t a networking event where Joel handed out business cards looking for deals. It was a relationship built naturally over years through his entertainment business. When the doctor needed to exit real estate due to health concerns, he thought of Joel—someone he knew, trusted, and had a personal connection with.

As Gabe summarizes during the episode: “That just goes to show relationships are one of the most important things in real estate. The relationship was the key, was the linchpin and that’s what allowed you to have the opportunity.”

Relationships create superior deal opportunities in several ways:

Trust reduces friction: When a seller knows you personally, they’re more comfortable with creative financing structures, flexible closing timelines, and non-traditional arrangements. Banks require extensive documentation and standardized terms; relationships allow for customized solutions.

You hear about opportunities first: The doctor didn’t list his 14-unit portfolio on the MLS. He sold directly to Joel because Joel was top-of-mind when he needed a solution. Most great deals never reach the public market because they’re solved through existing relationships.

Sellers prioritize peace of mind over maximum price: The doctor could have potentially gotten more money through a traditional sale, but that would have meant listing properties, dealing with multiple showings, negotiating with strangers, and managing uncertainty during a health crisis. Selling to Joel meant one conversation, one transaction, and immediate peace of mind.

You understand motivations better: Through years of casual conversations at DJ events, Joel likely understood the doctor’s situation, values, and pressures better than any real estate agent could learn in a listing appointment. This understanding enabled crafting a deal that genuinely solved the doctor’s problem.

Repeat business becomes natural: While Joel’s story focuses on acquisition, strong relationships also generate referrals, partnerships, and future opportunities. His involvement in professional landlord organizations puts him in contact with hundreds of other investors, each of whom might have deals, partnerships, or opportunities to share.

Joel’s approach to building relationships extends beyond just social interaction. His book, “Build Real Estate Wealth,” serves as another relationship-building tool. By teaching and sharing knowledge (he’s also involved in teaching through landlord organizations), he positions himself as a trusted expert in his market.

For investors looking to build deal-generating relationships:

Show up consistently in your community: Joel’s 35-year DJ career put him in front of thousands of people in his area. Your vehicle might be different—coaching youth sports, involvement in business groups, volunteering, or simply being active in local real estate investor associations.

Focus on giving value first: Joel wasn’t at those DJ appearances trying to find real estate deals. He was there to entertain. The relationships that led to deals were by-products of doing his primary job well and being genuinely interested in people.

Maintain relationships over years, not just when you need something: Joel knew the doctor for years before the deal opportunity arose. Most people only network when they’re actively looking for something, which makes their motivation transparent and relationships shallow.

Build reputation as a problem-solver: When people in your market know you as someone who creates win-win solutions, they’ll bring you opportunities. The doctor didn’t need someone to pay the absolute maximum price—he needed someone to take a problem off his hands quickly and reliably.

Leverage multiple relationship channels: Joel had DJ clients, property management tenants, fellow landlord organization members, and professional contacts from various businesses. Each relationship network creates different types of opportunities.

The lesson from Joel’s success is clear: while marketing, direct mail, and digital lead generation have their place in real estate investing, the most profitable opportunities typically come from genuine relationships built over time. Your next best deal is probably going to come from someone you already know—or someone they know.

What Should Beginners Know Before Investing in Rental Properties?

Joel Miller’s 47-year journey from a $25,000 first property to a multi-million-dollar portfolio offers crucial guidance for beginners considering their first rental property investment.

Perhaps most importantly, Joel emphasizes that real estate doesn’t require abandoning your current career or passion. As he states: “The book is for people who maybe don’t even think that real estate is for them because they don’t understand how it works, or they think it’s gotta be an either or situation.”

For beginners, here are the essential lessons from Joel’s experience:

Start sooner rather than waiting for perfect conditions. Joel bought his first property in 1978 while simultaneously building a DJ business and running an accounting practice. He didn’t wait until he was financially independent or had decades of experience. That first property still generates income today—47 years later. Every year you wait is a year of appreciation, cashflow, and mortgage paydown you’ll never recover.

Focus on off-market opportunities from day one. After buying his first property through a realtor, Joel never used a realtor to buy another rental property again. Learning to find off-market deals early in your career builds skills and relationships that compound over time. Start networking, building relationships in your market, and marketing directly to property owners.

Understand that education comes in many forms. Joel studied accounting in college, which he notes “you could use in any profession that you’re in.” Understanding numbers, cashflow analysis, and financial statements serves investors regardless of property type or strategy. His book covers everything from mindset through entity formation before even getting to property acquisition—suggesting that the business foundation matters as much as finding deals.

Vet every aspect of your investments thoroughly. Joel’s commercial property lesson about anchor tenant bankruptcy demonstrates that even experienced investors can face challenges when they don’t thoroughly investigate all aspects of a deal. Due diligence isn’t just about the property—it’s about tenants, market conditions, exit strategies, and risk factors.

Build multiple income streams within real estate. Joel didn’t just stick with rentals. He added flipping in 1991, moved into hard money lending in 2018, and now teaches and writes about real estate. This diversification provides income stability and different ways to profit from your market knowledge.

Stay connected to your local investing community. Joel is heavily involved with professional landlord organizations—currently serving as VP and previously as their longest-serving past president. These connections provide education, deal opportunities, resource sharing, and support during challenging situations.

Think long-term but act short-term. Joel’s first property from 1978 is still in his portfolio, demonstrating the long-term wealth building power of rental real estate. However, his 100+ house flips show he also understood the value of short-term strategies for generating capital. Beginners should have both a vision for building long-term wealth and practical plans for generating near-term returns.

Learn from every deal, especially the challenging ones. When Gabe asks about lessons learned from deals that went sideways, Joel immediately references his commercial property anchor tenant problem. The best investors extract lessons from every transaction and apply them moving forward.

Consider creative financing from the beginning. Joel’s no-money-down acquisition of 14 units shows that traditional bank financing isn’t the only path. Beginners often assume they need 20-25% down payments and perfect credit, but seller financing, partnerships, and creative structures can accelerate your journey significantly.

Master property management or hire professionals who do. Joel’s ability to take properties that were “half vacant and all under-rented” and bring them to full occupancy at market rents demonstrates the importance of operational skills. Whether you manage properties yourself or hire professionals, understanding property management fundamentals is crucial.

Joel’s book title—”Build Real Estate Wealth: Enjoy the Journey of Rental Property Investment”—emphasizes an often-overlooked aspect of real estate investing: it should enhance your life, not consume it. His ability to balance 35 years as a professional DJ with building a substantial real estate portfolio demonstrates that success doesn’t require sacrificing everything else you care about.

For beginners feeling overwhelmed by all there is to learn, Joel’s advice is clear: start where you are, with what you have, doing what you can. His first property cost just $25,000 with $5,000 down—modest numbers even for 1978. But that single decision to take action nearly five decades ago set in motion a journey that’s created substantial wealth while allowing him to pursue his passion for entertainment.

The invitation for new investors is simple: you don’t need to have everything figured out before you start. You just need to take the first step, remain committed to learning, build relationships in your market, and give yourself time for the power of real estate to work in your favor.

Connect and Continue Your Real Estate Journey

Joel Miller’s 47-year journey from a $25,000 first property to a diversified real estate portfolio demonstrates that building wealth through real estate doesn’t require choosing between your passion and your portfolio. Whether you’re just starting out or looking to scale your existing investments, the lessons from this episode provide actionable strategies for success in any market condition.

Want to learn more about our guest? Connect here: www.JoelMillerBooks.com

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